Hollow Point Ammo. 0. Seriously injured by .223 gunshot wounds to the right hand and neck. I was on duty that morning in Miami and heard it go down on my police radio Since it was being dispatch County wide as it was happening, After that day and event and listening to Sgt Dave Rivers who was in charged of MDPD crime scene unit give a detailed account of the events that took place and all the things that happened surrounding it I vowed I would let myself be outgunned. Instead of a large hollow-point cavity, Gold Dot G2 has a shallow dish filled with a high-performance elastomer. The reverse taper refers to the bullets jacket being thicker at the tip than at the base. He reportedly loaded his handgun with Black Talon rounds. It just makes one realize when your shift began you never knew what may happen. { I personally own 10 boxes of Winchester Black Talon in .45 ACP and 9mm.6 boxes of .38 Special and .357 Magnum.and 10 boxes of .44 Magnum. If so how much do you want for them? With that, I wanted to take the time to compliment you on one of the best written articles to have ever covered this topic. The Black Talon and other high-performance ammunition combine a hollow point, which enables the bullet to expand upon impact, and notched configurations, which direct the expansion into a sharp . The autopsy found Platts right lung had collapsed and his chest cavity contained 1.3 liters of blood, suggesting damage to the main blood vessels of the right lung. [1] Black Talon ammunition was produced in the following calibers: 9mm Luger, 10mm Auto, .40 S&W, .45 ACP, .357 Magnum, .44 Magnum, .300 Winchester Magnum, .308 Winchester, .338 Winchester Magnum, and .30-06 Springfield. Platt then entered the Grogan/Dove car in an apparent attempt to flee the scene. After that shooting I never took anything for granted again. Officer Heckman does not remember Platt leaving the Grogan/Dove car. Elevation Talon 44 Bow Case Black 44 In. The larger the wound channel the more likely the threat will drop quicker. In 2009, Winchester-Olin released a new hollow point bullet in its Supreme Elite line of handgun ammunition called the Bonded PDX1. For ammunition to pass the FBI Test Protocol, it must meet a minimum of 12 inches of penetration in ballistics gelatin, but no more than 18 inches. They are just arguably the most aggressive and most lethal hollow point round ever designed due to the sharp petals that expand when it makes. If you are as clueless as I was, the Black Talon is a self-defense round manufactured by Winchester in the early 90s. I am currently waiting on the 40 S&W round to come out. TheFirearmBlog // Physician Boyd Stevens, the San Francisco Medical Examiner who performed the autopsies, later reported at the 1994 International Wound Ballistics Association's conference in Sacramento that the wound trauma caused by Black Talons was unremarkable and that all victims died due to penetration of a vital structure.[6]. [15] It is similar to the Ranger SXT series and the older Black Talon design in its structure, and is available in several calibers and loadings. I have tested the PDX-1 in .45ACP and found that it needs at least 4 of bbl. Subsequently, one of the shooting victim's family members filed a lawsuit against Olin, Inc, trying to hold them responsible for the victim's death. Black Talon handgun ammo production was halted in 1993. Winchester Black Talon is arguably the most aggressive and most lethal hollow-point round ever designed due to the sharp petals that expand when it makes contact with the human body. The bullet, fired by Risner or Orrantia, penetrated Platts right forearm, fractured the radius bone and exited the forearm. Both are offered on the Underwood website which I like to go to. When a hollow point bullet hits a soft target, it expands to what looks like a flower with petals. Throwback Thursday: 5 Long-Slide Pistols I Can't Live Without, Full Feature: Anderson Manufacturing Kiger 9C Pro 9mm, The History Fixed and Adjustable Iron Sights, Throwback Thursday: All About Bullet Grain, Rifle Hack: Sighting for 100 Yards at a Distance of 25 Yards. 366 (S.D.N.Y., 1996)) claiming that Olin Corp. should be liable for the shooting spree based on the design, manufacture, marketing, and sale of Black Talon ammunition. Billing its rounds as peace through pork, Jihawg gained media scrutiny for a very noveland some would say absurdaddition to what seem to be perfectly standard 9mm rounds. More recently, the US Supreme Court refused to hear an appeal that would strike down San Franciscos hollow point ban. In the end of the nearly five-minute shootout, five FBI agents were wounded and twoJerry Dove and Benjamin Groganwere killed. The points of the claws are actually the result of the geometry of the copper jacket being inside the nose cavity and subsequently turned inside-out on impact. Youll likely not hear this directly from Remington, but the Golden Saber round is designed to expand very similarly to the Black Talon. Both of their bodies were drug-free at the time of their deaths.[26]. Those knowledgeable about guns and ammunition know that a Black Talon isnt any more deadly than other hollow points, just like an AR-15 isnt any more deadly than a Remington Model 700. Gun #: 963524304 Seller: GunFactory ( FFL) $219.99 Full Details 1 Image (s) Radian Talon Safety Selector - 4-lever Black For Ar15 Gun #: 969752348 Seller: GunFactory ( FFL) $93.49 Full Details Other than the collectibility of the Black Talon, the author is definitely right about other ammunition being just as good and some even being close to identical just by a different name (I like the SXT round reference.same exact thing..lol). Introduced in 2007, the Ranger T Series is still available for purchase today. "[N]o injuries have been reported to medical professionals removing the bullets" in "Police use new brand of bullets Surgeon says removal may endanger doctors" by Dan R. Barber. This coating is still widely used on many of Winchester's rifle bullets today.[4]. That soon led to a popular assumption that the rounds were armor-piercing and presented a threat to police. At the end of a nearly five-minute shootout and over 140 rounds fired, five FBI agents were wounded and two (Jerry Dove and Benjamin Grogan) were killed. [5] The round quickly developed a reputation as a very effective expanding bullet. Most of the rounds below can be found in multiple calibers, including the ever-popular 9x19mm and .45 ACP. *Editors note: The source has chosen to remain anonymousdue to the sensitive nature of their work. McNeill fired over the hood of Manauzzis car but was wounded by return fire from Platts Ruger Mini-14 rifle. Black Talon was controversial, and Winchester discontinued sales to the general public in 1993 and ceased manufacture in 2000. But it seems that they maybe more Gun Owner In Name Only. I still see students in my Concealed Carry Classes who buy the gun, get the permit, then put the thing up on a shelf in the closet never to be seen again. I have a box of sxt, but chose the bonded version for performance through auto glass. Black Talon rounds were known for the unique construction of the bullet and its sharp petal shape after expansion following impact with tissue or other wet media. What sets the Black Talon apart is its six sharp pointy edges. Despite being riddled with bullet holes from the FBI, Platt was able to continue firing back. was no expansion although you are correct that the body can keep going with a lot of punishment. No, Black Talon rounds are not armor piercing. Range Report: How Good Is the Smith and Wesson M&P FPC 9mm Folding Carbine? Below is our list of the top most controversial brands or types of handgun rounds. Some say that SXT stands for the same exact thing. If you are desperate to get your hands on the original Black Talon, you can find it online, but at a jacked up price. Thanks Suzanne. [21] However, it is known for certain that Platt pulled Matixs Dan Wesson revolver at some point and fired three rounds. Following the United States Army's selection of the SIG Sauer P320-derived M17 pistol in the Modular Handgun System competition, the Army announced two new 9mm rounds would be adopted alongside the gun, the M1152 Ball, an 115 grain full metal jacket round "for use against enemy personnel, for training, and for force protection", and the M1153 Special Purpose, a 147 grain jacketed hollow point round "for use in situations where limited over-penetration of targets is necessary to reduce collateral damage." I second and add my own thumbs up to G-Mans comments in praise of this article by Suzanne. Some were enthralled by the black bullets and wanted to examine them closely. Plus I saw rounds that had been recovered from a number of officer involved shootings. Winchester got burned by its own marketing hype on Black Talon, when criminal misuse of the product fueled media hysterics over bullets that deploy flesh-ripping claws. They make them in many different calibers and seeing what they do in a block of gel is amazing. I know that Underwood Ammo sells some pretty nasty rounds called Controlled Fracture rounds. I generally test new bullets to see how they expand through barriers one is likely to encounter. 1-1 1/2 of penetration the round is usually expanded to about .45+ with jagged petals that cut for about 12. When a hollow point bullet hits a soft target, it mushrooms out to what looks like a flower with petals. Sign In . Speer Gold Dot is a .45ACP that will give some kind of decent expansion in short barrels, even with 230-grain loads. Previously only offered to law enforcement, Speer Gold Dot G2 offers the ultimate performance for self-defense thanks to an exclusive nose design. Agents[edit] thrived on controversy. In fact, for the first two years, Black Talon was on the market it received an award from Shooting Industry magazine for its effective lethality. 2023 The SOFREP Media Group. Rapidly expanding projectiles help to ensure that all of the energy able to be summoned up by a pistol caliber will remain in its primary target. Or it had been at one time. This ammunition line was renamed Fail Safe. The FBI has awarded Hornady with a fixed price indefinite-delivery/indefinite-quantity (IDIQ) agreement for its 9mm +P 135-grain Critical Duty ammunition. Not exactly sure what to do with one round none of my guns could eat at the time, the Black Talon was soon forgotten and lost in the black hole I call a car. PDX-1 looks the same on expansion as the BT, except now the claws are filled in with lead because PDX-1 is a bonded bullet, which is a superior design to the non-bonded BT. Minor injuries from shotgun pellets. Yes. It does excellent damage and comes with the Crow's Wings perk that launches a Heavy Attack projectile at enemies. Uninjured. Yes, all of this may be classified but they are still out there being used by those who wear no uniforms and those who blend into populations overseas working #### # ##########. [8] Great read, all the correct info in the correct order and on point and subject. The fourth hit Matix in the face next to his right eye socket, travelled downward through the facial bones, into the neck, where it entered the spinal column and severed the spinal cord. While its black color and petal-like construction gave it a very distinctive look,. Speer Gold Dot and Hornady Critical Duty also offer superb terminal ballistics in all calibers theyre available in. THANK YOU FOR SUPPORTING VETERAN JOURNALISM - JOIN SOFREP+ , PO Box 1077 MURFREESBORO, Tennessee 37133 United States, P.O. Every time I see reference to that shootout it takes me back to that day. Many in the firearms community noted the latter hollow point round is conspicuously similar to the Ranger T/ Black Talon, in response Winchester largely avoided the question, saying that despite obvious similarities the round was designed to "maximize performance based on the government specification set out in the request for proposal. If you compress the blood vessels in the body enough, the blood ruptures vessels at the weakest point. San Francisco put together a new law banning Black Talon ammunition. That D.A. I am also well versed in the Black Talon and its complete run in history to the point that I own some for posterity sake. cannot easily destroy. For a round very similar to the old Black Talon, check out the Winchester Ranger series or the PDX1though both are difficult to find. The rifle version did not share the handgun bullet's barbed petal design and was basically a solid copper hollow-point with a hollowed out rear shank containing a lead core in a steel liner to prevent jacket rupture thus maintaining necessary penetration in tough game. Shooting a .357 black talon at some ballistics gel. Of his many gunshot wounds, this first was the primary injury responsible for Platts eventual death. Are Black Talon Bullets armor-piercing? Even though it can be found on sites like GunBroker for a premium, people are still in search of a modern-day equivalent. Ranger "Talon" ammo for a while, was also marked SXT on the box, but the bullets themselves were not the same bullet . Home Ammunition Black Talon and Todays Best Self-Defense Ammo. Therefore, they are certainly NOT the same exact thing. Seriously injured by a .223 gunshot wound to the left forearm. Following the Long Island Railroad Mass Murder in 1993, Black Talon ammunition attained notoriety in the media and with the anti-gun lobby. The 147 "SXT" bullet in the Premium/Supreme 9mm load was NOT the same as the old Black Talon, and did NOT have the "talons" that the Black Talon and Ranger T bullets have. Mireles drew his .357 Magnum revolver, moved parallel to the street and then directly toward Platt and Matix. Sign In Why Join As a Dealer Dealer Login. Weve already featured a few hollow point rounds on this list, but in a general sense, all hollow point ammo is controversial. [18], Around this time, Metro-Dade police officers Rick Frye, Leonard Figueroa and Martin Heckman arrived. With robust designs and vintage classic style, discover the heritage of military timepieces today! almost always light Noslers (135gr in 10mm, 115gr in .357 Sig) from Underwood Ammo. [11] McNeill was then shot in the hand and, due to his wound and blood in his revolvers chambers, could not reload.[8]. Terminal ballistics testing of hollow point bullets is generally performed in ballistic gelatin, or some other medium intended to simulate tissue and cause a hollow point bullet to expand. 200 lbs. Hornady Critical Duty, with FlexLock technology, delivers "barrier blind" performance when shot through common urban barriers. But affecting vital structure is what causes an interruption in aggression. [24], The shootout involved ten people: two suspects and eight FBI agents. 223 rounds. Due to collision damage, Matix could only open his door partially, and fired one shotgun round at Grogan and Dove, striking their vehicle. The second hit the drivers side window post and fragmented, with one small piece hitting Platt in the scalp. [8] At an unknown time, Matix had regained consciousness and he joined Platt in the car, entering via the passenger door. To keep it fair, we havent included anything too out of the ordinary, and everything listed below can be found for commercial sale. John; Black Talon exotic weapon stats & perks. Its a handgun round that took on a mythology of its own. ActionHub // Wow thats really intelligent for FBI agents to have 38 specials inside 357 revolvers, huh? Trust me, those friends have no intention of visiting you in prison. Everytime a Good Guy with a Gun does the right thing, the media never mentions it. Seriously injured by .223 gunshot wounds to the right hand and groin. Any idea on value??? [3] Though widely misreported to be Teflon, molybdenum disulfide, or wax, the ammo has an unusual black appearance compared to other copper-jacketed or lead bullets. They make and sell 9mm ammunition and plenty of other calibers. I think for defense most people use the 125 gr jhp or 158, something like that. I am in no way an expert, but I think the black talon 180 gr load in 357 is hunting ammunition. I absolutely love this ammunition. Also, the photo of the mushroomed bullet with 2 layers of petals is totally radical and cool and wicked!! Effective self-defense requires ammunition that provides consistent expansion, optimum penetration, and superior terminal performance. When the Black Talon expanded, it resembled talons, essentially creating a massive wound channel. Not true. AllOutdoor // Killed after being shot six times. Sgt Rivers several months after the event started to do or was requested to speak about that entire event and did so both at the training Academy as well as to different agencies both locally and then nationally over time. [1] Best Handguns for Detectives in Fiction | The Writer's Guide to Weapons. Washington Takes Oppression of Gun Owners to New Lows, Finding a Firearm: My Wifes First Pistol, Throwback Thursday: 5 Long-Slide Pistols I Cant Live Without. Glock 30 Gold dot 200 gr +P / Critical Duty 220 gr +P / HST 230 gr +P No one weapon will ever be enough in my mind. One must rapidly cause a loss of blood pressure or break bones. This enhances rigidity which allows the sharp "talons" to remain perpendicular to the wound path. Two high-profile mass shootings in 1993 led to the Black Talons demise. Yes there are a whole lot of new gun owners since 2019. Hanlon lost his .357 Magnum service revolver during the initial collision, though he was still able to fight with his Smith & Wesson Model 36 backup gun. The incident lasted under five minutes yet approximately 145 shots were exchanged. Shooters tend to drift toward shot placement and wound channel specs in defensive shooting. Manufacturer. I went to carrying a 40 cal Sig plus a backup and even 2 shotguns in my unit. They actually became friends in the Army. In December, Colin Ferguson killed six people and injured 19 more on a train in New York. Despite this, the ammo maker did have avidsupporters until it recently closed its doors. Hollow Point Ammo. The collision knocked off Grogans glasses, and there is speculation his vision was so bad that he was unable to see clearly enough to be effective. Black Talon Ballistic Gel Test ** 45 ACP & 10mm ** The Wound Channel 58.4K subscribers Subscribe 246K views 8 years ago I was fortunate enough to have a viewer send me some Black Talon. John Hall, the FBI Firearms Training Unit Director at the time called the tragedy "an ammo failure". It has to be just as sharp and just as prepared. RecPak is a meal replacement for the outdoors that saves you weight, space and time in the most challenging environments, just add water. Be sure to keep 20-25 sword ammo for final bosses. Mostly because they are 25 years old and other companies are reproducing them under different name for as low as $18. The fifth hit Matix in the face, penetrated the jaw bone and neck and came to rest by the spinal column. [2] The bullet included a Lubalox coating, a proprietary oxide process. As he did so, he was shot a second and third time, in the right thigh and left foot. Besides further dimensional changes to the hollow point for reliable expansion, the distinctive perpendicular petals were made longer yet more rounded at the tips to retain stiffness. Be sure to follow us onFacebook,Instagram, andLinkedInfor exclusive content and deals. On the other hand, using the bullets that the FBI uses becomes a prudent choice and a case that the D.A. Today, Black Talon bullets are no longer manufactured or sold by Winchester, but similar types of hollow-point bullets are still widely available and legal for civilian use in the United States. At no point was the round ever prohibited by United States law. It cuts through the organs of a human being.[18]. Winchester discontinued the Black Talon line completely in 2000. There is a lot to be said for that kind of recommendation. I had no idea I was sitting on a collectable round that now sells for close to $100 a box. boxes. Put it head to head with the Federal HST 124 grain in ballistic gel and against a Kevlar bulletproof panel!. The Black Talon exotic sword is still a beast in Destiny 2. Black Talon is a brand of hollow-point pistol and rifle ammunition introduced in 1991 by Winchester, primarily intended for law enforcement and personal defense use. An example is a 9mm 50 grain JHP that has a velocity of 2000 Ft per second! When he was hand cuffed and moved a second weapon had been in his good hand. No, Im not talking about a 3 letter agency either. On impact, the material is forced into engineered internal fissures to start the expansion process. For personal carry. However, sometimes the public or national media sees it as too lethal, and thats where the controversy starts. Here is a standard block with a 44 Magnum Winchester Black Talon displayed next to an expanded bullet shot through ballistics gel Share 0 Share on Facebook +1 +1 on Google Plus Latest News [8] Platt then pulled back from the window, giving Matix opportunity to fire. Testing out the Winchester Ranger SXT .357 Magnum 180 gr SXT (Black Talon bullet circa 1993) in a 10% Clear Ballistics test in my 4" S&W 686 and 2" Taurus 60. alma wahlberg obituary massachusetts, moscardini in umido bimby, consovoy mccarthy uber,
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